Discussion:
Logs from the DPL debate posted, and a draft ballot
(too old to reply)
Debian Project Secretary
2005-03-18 00:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi folks,

The platforms for the candidates for the project leader are
available as links on the page http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/vote_001
or, http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/platforms/. The rebuttals are
also in place.

The following is a ***DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT*** ballot for the
upcoming elections. The ordering of candidates was determined using
Perl and rand() (yeah, too lazy to actually toss coins this year)..


======================================================================
Votinge period starts 00:00:01 UTC on March 21st, 2005.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on April 10th, 2005.

This vote is being conducted as required by the Debian Constitution.
You may see the constitution at http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.
For voting questions contact ***@debian.org.

HOW TO VOTE

Do not erase anything between the lines below and do not change the
choice names.

In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1. Place a 2 in
the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your
last choice. Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger than 7.
You may skip numbers. You may rank options equally (as long as all
choices X you make fall in the range 1<= X <= 7).

To vote "no, no matter what" rank "None Of The Above" as more
desirable than the unacceptable choices, or You may rank the "None Of
The Above" choice, and leave choices you consider unacceptable
blank. Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired
choices, and ranked below all ranked choices. (Note: if the None Of
The Above choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other unranked
choices, if any -- no special consideration is given to the None Of
The Above choice by the voting software).

Then mail the ballot to: ***@vote.debian.org.
Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters
(">") that your reply inserts. NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed
(or PGP signed) with your key that is in the Debian keyring.

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
46348448-74a5-40ae-a651-49704435ae8c
[ ] Choice 1: Jonathan Walther
[ ] Choice 2: Matthew Garrett
[ ] Choice 3: Branden Robinson
[ ] Choice 4: Anthony Towns
[ ] Choice 5: Angus Lees
[ ] Choice 6: Andreas Schuldei
[ ] Choice 7: None Of The Above
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The responses to a valid vote shall be signed by the vote key created
for this vote. The public key for the vote, signed by the Project
secretary, is appended below.

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

mQGiBEHyy+gRBAD2ooetZbcbrJuCsPlXTq2oVaxUXFQjzoSnHiavDMZgGJYQX6cn
w90FEBNlkFZihwgzmFQ3N5HuA2OwT9nrrNBWcCNhM9YPqhD+tZ9bBz90YJuq0O5P
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8wZpN91Jkl94ml5oL/fpA871R/+FRgHe9/OveERgc6NxeiRI9VwwmNFLyFLKTUdv
M6UpXxM0zyM/hrXjxftW+92lihsYuLI9X7Lw8OQlbmIrmL4Ysz3qH1p4/GTKnBE6
GwADBQP/ci/6RMtXW13YaUxB8p9SiffKS1p6pDgaeKbUDDjLH/Ldcat044UoBM3h
VkUzN6MQLdKj7bgZv8xCDYZZSFf7zynfot/UD7h07TMerQ92vm1ytxC8rDJOF12B
J0XVuIqUNyFQEGMQzooSNbdf6be6k5BhiV7CqYE3gTpiQAC0XCOITwQYEQIADwUC
QfLL6AIbDAUJAG6+AAAKCRCZ5QesHes3/JwCAKCD19s2E1NuTFMwVXR7m9oY2SN8
YwCglFQ5hhtqKPMl3pKVWonXkETV0hY=
=cSBQ
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
======================================================================
--
She's genuinely bogus.
Debian Project Secretary <***@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/vote/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Don Armstrong
2005-03-18 22:10:28 UTC
Permalink
First and formost, this discussion doesn't belong on -legal at all, as
-legal isn't the body responsible for interpreting the constitution.
That's the Secretary's job under 7.1.3. Forwarding to -vote as that
(or possibly -project) is the correct list.
NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed (or PGP signed) with your key
that is in the Debian keyring.
Can I send in my vote by mail? If not, what alternate mechanism
exists? If none, please make one. I don't want to be left out of
the voting because of someone else's inaction.
I'm sorry, but I don't think I can just make up rules. You need to
be a DD in good standing in order to vote, and that essentially
means having a key in the keyring.
1. Whence does the requirement for signed votes come from?
Via 7.1.1 and A.6.1
2. Who is empowered to change the policy surrounding the voting
system?
If the change requires a change to the constitution, the Developers
are by an appropriate GR. Otherwise, the Secretary sets the policy.
3. By what authority can the Secretary reject an authenticatable
vote provided by alternate means? (e.g. notarized document by
certified mail)
By 7.1.1 and A.6.1 again.
4. What defines who is and is not a Debian Developer?
Having control of a valid key in the keyring is pretty much the de
facto definition of a Debian Developer.
5. How do I fix my current problem?
From /usr/share/doc/debian-keyring/README.gz

Getting your key into the debian keyring
----------------------------------------

If you are an old debian developer who hasn't uploaded your
packages for a long time, and your key is not in the keyring,
send a mail to keyring-***@debian.org explaining the situation,
and including your public PGP key.

All new maintainers should apply at http://nm.debian.org/, and
your key(s) will be added to the keyring as part of the admission
process.


Don Armstrong
--
The solution to a problem changes the problem.
-- Peer's Law

http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu
Taral
2005-03-19 02:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Armstrong
First and formost, this discussion doesn't belong on -legal at all, as
-legal isn't the body responsible for interpreting the constitution.
That's the Secretary's job under 7.1.3. Forwarding to -vote as that
(or possibly -project) is the correct list.
That's funny. The Secretary appears to be of the opinion that he cannot
"make up rules".
Post by Don Armstrong
1. Whence does the requirement for signed votes come from?
Via 7.1.1 and A.6.1
That would imply that the Secretary can accept votes by other means. It
also implies that the Secretary could insist that all votes be
communicated by comments on a bank wire transfer.
Post by Don Armstrong
4. What defines who is and is not a Debian Developer?
Having control of a valid key in the keyring is pretty much the de
facto definition of a Debian Developer.
I don't think so. The document you quote below indicates that loss of
control of the key does not invalidate one's status as a DD.
--
Taral <***@taral.net>
This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me.
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Thomas Bushnell BSG
2005-03-19 02:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taral
I don't think so. The document you quote below indicates that loss of
control of the key does not invalidate one's status as a DD.
But DD's are required to have keys in the ring. So get a key back in,
and vote.
Don Armstrong
2005-03-19 02:56:45 UTC
Permalink
[Please follow debian list policy and refrain from Cc:'ing me. I'm
subscribed to way too many lists.]
Post by Taral
Post by Don Armstrong
First and formost, this discussion doesn't belong on -legal at all, as
-legal isn't the body responsible for interpreting the constitution.
That's the Secretary's job under 7.1.3. Forwarding to -vote as that
(or possibly -project) is the correct list.
That's funny. The Secretary appears to be of the opinion that he
cannot "make up rules".
The Secretary does not make up rules.[1] The Secretary can only apply
and interpret the rules in the constitution. [How you get to "make up
rules" from "interpreting the constitution" is rather interesting, but
the logic behind it need not be expounded.]
Post by Taral
Post by Don Armstrong
1. Whence does the requirement for signed votes come from?
Via 7.1.1 and A.6.1
That would imply that the Secretary can accept votes by other means.
It also implies that the Secretary could insist that all votes be
communicated by comments on a bank wire transfer.
Presumably, but that would be kind of insane. Obviously the whole
system does not function if the Secretary becomes Vishnu[2] and
decides that the Constitution really says that chaos should reign.
Post by Taral
Post by Don Armstrong
4. What defines who is and is not a Debian Developer?
Having control of a valid key in the keyring is pretty much the de
facto definition of a Debian Developer.
I don't think so. The document you quote below indicates that loss
of control of the key does not invalidate one's status as a DD.
No, it merely means that we can no longer assertain if you actually
are a DD or someone merely claiming to be a former one. That is to
say, your status as a DD is indeterminant until you are in control of
a valid key in the keyring.


Don Armstrong

1: Well, at least not rules that contravene what the Constitution
says.
2: I'm sure Manoj will correct my lack of understanding of theology
here.
--
An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications.
-- Robert Heinlein _Time Enough For Love_ p244

http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu
Manoj Srivastava
2005-03-19 05:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taral
Post by Don Armstrong
First and formost, this discussion doesn't belong on -legal at all,
as -legal isn't the body responsible for interpreting the
constitution. That's the Secretary's job under 7.1.3. Forwarding
to -vote as that (or possibly -project) is the correct list.
That's funny. The Secretary appears to be of the opinion that he
cannot "make up rules".
Post by Don Armstrong
1. Whence does the requirement for signed votes come from?
Via 7.1.1 and A.6.1
That would imply that the Secretary can accept votes by other
means. It also implies that the Secretary could insist that all
votes be communicated by comments on a bank wire transfer.
Well, at least for the general resolution, 4.2.6 specifies
ballots are cast by email. But yes, there is nothing concrete about
votes for a DPL election.
Post by Taral
Post by Don Armstrong
4. What defines who is and is not a Debian Developer?
Having control of a valid key in the keyring is pretty much the de
facto definition of a Debian Developer.
I don't think so. The document you quote below indicates that loss
of control of the key does not invalidate one's status as a DD.
I would strongly suggest that loss of control of a key results
in a loss of some privileges, like directly being able to upload
packages, and to vote via email (since one can't ascertain whose vote
it is).


But, you are correct, since the constitution does not say that
DPL election ballots are required to be by email, I hereby specify
this alternate mechanism, which shall allow me to ascertain that the
vote is from a DD:

a) Present me with a picture ID signed by a person in NM, of
the DAM, or the DPL, or K people whose keys are in the
keyring, AND
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's issued by a governemt
that demonstrate who you are, and match the signed the
signed picture in a)
c) tell me, personally, what your vote is during the voting
period. Be prepared to do the same with an auditor is the
vote is ever audited.

And then you may vote.

manoj
--
An economist is a man who would marry Farrah Fawcett-Majors for her
money.
Manoj Srivastava <***@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Taral
2005-03-20 02:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manoj Srivastava
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by a person in NM, of
the DAM, or the DPL, or K people whose keys are in the
keyring, AND
What is K?
--
Taral <***@taral.net>
This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me.
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Henning Makholm
2005-03-20 03:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taral
Post by Manoj Srivastava
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by a person in NM, of
the DAM, or the DPL, or K people whose keys are in the
keyring, AND
What is K?
1. Go to <http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution>.
2. Search for "K is".
--
Henning Makholm "What a hideous colour khaki is."
--
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Andrew Suffield
2005-03-20 09:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henning Makholm
Post by Taral
Post by Manoj Srivastava
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by a person in NM, of
the DAM, or the DPL, or K people whose keys are in the
keyring, AND
What is K?
1. Go to <http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution>.
2. Search for "K is".
And http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/vote_001 where the value of K for
this vote is provided.
--
.''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
: :' : http://www.debian.org/ |
`. `' |
`- -><- |
Anthony Towns
2005-03-20 16:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henning Makholm
Post by Taral
Post by Manoj Srivastava
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by a person in NM, of
the DAM, or the DPL, or K people whose keys are in the
keyring, AND
What is K?
1. Go to <http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution>.
2. Search for "K is".
_K is_

Can't update,
Impossible to renew.
Frustration mounts.
Like a burnt out fuse.
In the long cold dawn,
By the side of the road,
A hopeless case,
An expired key.

K is (K is) what you want it to be.
K is (K is) defined constitutionally.
Up to... half the root of us,
Though five is... pretty much enough.

Get a passport,
Fly through the stars.
Call for help.
Wake up cold.
Don't let the system,
Get under your skin.
Raw emotion.
Please don't go.

K is (K is) what you want it to be.
K is (K is) defined constitutionally.
Up to... half the root of us,
Though five is... pretty much enough.

Can't live on promises
They don't verify right.
Don't trust a thing you say,
'Til you authenticate twice.
Won't run on instinct.
Won't go by feel.
Won't trust our senses.
Got to know you're real.

K is (K is) what you want to be.
K is (K is) defined constitutionally.
Up to... half the root of us,
Though five is... pretty much enough.

Err. With apologies to Alannah Myles.

Cheers,
aj
Steinar H. Gunderson
2005-03-20 03:07:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manoj Srivastava
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by a person in NM, of
the DAM, or the DPL, or K people whose keys are in the
keyring, AND
Is there a reason why you one NM signature is as good as K DD signatures? Or
am I misunderstanding something?

/* Steinar */
--
Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/
Manoj Srivastava
2005-03-19 06:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

[This is a correction to my earlier message on this topic]

I would also like to point out that the current working
definition of who is a DD is is someone who is in the LDAP db at
db.debian.org in the debian developer group, and who has a key in the
current debian keyring (refreshed daily during the voting period)

I suppose that the DAM is the one who has been granted
responsibility for adding people to Debian, and the NM team
collectively was given the authority to boot DD'sout (the last time
we booted a DD), so I'll take the word of the DAM (or NM
collectively) as to who is a DD and who is not; in case my working
definition of a DD is at odds with their view on the matter. I am
assuming also that the DPL has the authority, since the DAM is his
delegate, to add a person in to the project even if their key is not
in the keyring.

======================================================================
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by the DAM, or the DPL,
or the whole NM team, stating that the person named, and
whose picture is being signed, is indeed a DD.
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's issued by a governemt
that demonstrate who you are, and match the signed the
signed picture in a)
c) tell me, personally, what your vote is during the voting
period. Be prepared to do the same with an auditor is the
vote is ever audited.
======================================================================

manoj
--
Q: Why did Menachem Begin invade Lebanon? A: To impress Jodie Foster.
Manoj Srivastava <***@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Francois Gurin
2005-03-19 20:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Debian Project Secretary
======================================================================
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by the DAM, or the DPL,
or the whole NM team, stating that the person named, and
whose picture is being signed, is indeed a DD.
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's issued by a governemt
that demonstrate who you are, and match the signed the
signed picture in a)
c) tell me, personally, what your vote is during the voting
period. Be prepared to do the same with an auditor is the
vote is ever audited.
======================================================================
i request that a) be dated and only valid for a predetermined period of time.
then we can determine if the signator held the required position(s) when the
picture id is certified and will encourage regular verfication of this
potentially vulnerable addition to the circle of trust.

i would further like clarification if the picture in a) can be signed by any
member of the NM team or indeed must be signed by all members of the NM team.

will c) be restricted to official audits of the vote or can any interested
party running an independant count request the credentials according to the
process outlined above?

in the future, will we see ftpmasters employing this process as proof of DD
status when uploading packages? if so, i would like to see the credentials
in a) printed directly on the media to prevent contamination to the archives.


thanks for providing an alternate method to submit our ballots
--francois
Henning Makholm
2005-03-19 21:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francois Gurin
Post by Debian Project Secretary
======================================================================
a) Present me with a picture ID signed by the DAM, or the DPL,
or the whole NM team, stating that the person named, and
whose picture is being signed, is indeed a DD.
i request that a) be dated and only valid for a predetermined period of time.
OpenPGP signatures are always dated.

Assuming that the project secretary does not go stark raving mad, he
would only accept signatures made so recently that the voter could not
reasonably just have his new key added to the keyring instead.
Post by Francois Gurin
i would further like clarification if the picture in a) can be signed by any
member of the NM team or indeed must be signed by all members of the NM team.
"The whole NM team" is hard to misunderstand, isn't it?
Post by Francois Gurin
Post by Debian Project Secretary
c) tell me, personally, what your vote is during the voting
period. Be prepared to do the same with an auditor is the
vote is ever audited.
will c) be restricted to official audits of the vote or can any interested
party running an independant count request the credentials according to the
process outlined above?
Read §5.2.5 of the Consitution, second half.
Post by Francois Gurin
in the future, will we see ftpmasters employing this process as proof of DD
status when uploading packages?
If we do, it will consitute irrefutable proof that all the ftpmaster
team has entirely too much time on their hands and that all who claim
otherwise belong to the Cabal.

Seriously, instead of asking a bunch of high project officials to sign
your ID, you could just have them sponsor your package. That is
quicker and easier on everybody.
Post by Francois Gurin
if so, i would like to see the credentials in a) printed directly on
the media to prevent contamination to the archives.
Huh?
--
Henning Makholm "Punctuation, is? fun!"
Frank Küster
2005-03-19 21:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manoj Srivastava
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's issued by a governemt
that demonstrate who you are, and match the signed the
signed picture in a)
Why two ID cards?

What if some german guy only has their "Personalausweis", but no
passport (no plans to leave the European Union, the passport is quite
expensive) and no drivers license? Or if a US citizen only has a social
security card (and no drivers license, and lives in a state that does not
issue these famous "non-drivers licences")?

Regards, Frank
--
Frank Küster
Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer
Henning Makholm
2005-03-19 22:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Küster
Post by Manoj Srivastava
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's issued by a governemt
that demonstrate who you are, and match the signed the
signed picture in a)
What if some german guy only has their "Personalausweis", but no
passport
Then you cannot go to ... um, somewhere in North America I think, and
show your non-existant passport Manoj in person anyway.
Post by Frank Küster
(no plans to leave the European Union, the passport is quite
expensive)
FWIW, when you go to another Schengen country you still have to
_bring_ your passport; you just don't have to show it at the border.
At least that's what they tell us in Denmark.
Post by Frank Küster
Or if a US citizen only has a social security card (and no drivers
license, and lives in a state that does not issue these famous
"non-drivers licences")?
Of if you are hospitalized or have a 24/7-on-call job that prevents
you from going to show stuff to Manoj in person? Tough luck. The
_canonical_ way to vote is to have a key in the keyring, anyway.
--
Henning Makholm "The Board views the endemic use of PowerPoint
briefing slides instead of technical papers as an
illustration of the problematic methods of technical communicaion at NASA."
Matthias Urlichs
2005-03-19 23:55:33 UTC
Permalink
FWIW, when you go to another Schengen country you still have to _bring_
your passport; you just don't have to show it at the border. At least
that's what they tell us in Denmark.
I haven't heard of any instance where the ID card / "Personalausweis"
wasn't sufficient.
--
Matthias Urlichs | {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de | ***@smurf.noris.de
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Russ Allbery
2005-03-19 22:30:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Küster
What if some german guy only has their "Personalausweis", but no
passport (no plans to leave the European Union, the passport is quite
expensive) and no drivers license? Or if a US citizen only has a social
security card (and no drivers license, and lives in a state that does
not issue these famous "non-drivers licences")?
The US social security card has no photograph on it and is not an ID card.
Most US citizens who have not travelled internationally (and therefore
don't have a passport) only have one government-issued photo ID (driver's
license or state ID card) and no way of obtaining a second one without
applying for a passport.
--
Russ Allbery (***@stanford.edu) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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Manoj Srivastava
2005-03-20 05:43:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank Küster
Post by Manoj Srivastava
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's issued by a governemt
that demonstrate who you are, and match the signed the signed
picture in a)
Why two ID cards?
Because that is the criteria I use to sign keys -- and I
figure that the least I can do before accepting ballots from
potential strangers is to have them meet the same criteria that I
have for signing their key.
Post by Frank Küster
What if some german guy only has their "Personalausweis", but no
passport (no plans to leave the European Union, the passport is
quite expensive) and no drivers license?
Gow do you suppose they come to meet me to tell me their vote?
Post by Frank Küster
Or if a US citizen only has a social security card (and no drivers
license, and lives in a state that does not issue these famous
"non-drivers licences")?
Well, they can get their key in the ring ;-). However, if this
is such a hardship, here is a modification of the protocol:

======================================================================
1)
a) Have a key in the key-ring
b) be present in the LDAP db in the group for Debian
developers
or
2)
a) provide a signed email from the DAM or the DPL stating that
the key with a given ID and finger print belongs to a DD
or
3)
Two things must be accomplished: firstly, one needs authoritative,
and conclusive, evidence that you are a developer. Since DAM is the
one who has been granted responsibility for adding people to
Debian, and the NM team collectively was given the authority to
boot DD's out, or the DPL, since the DAM is his delegate, these
are the authoritative sources of information about who is, or is
not, a DD. Secondly, one needs to prove that the person telling one
about the preferred ballot is the person mentioned before; so
whatever it takes to convince the secretary. The current incumbent
has well defined policies for identity verification, so that is what
is followed.

a) Present me with a picture ID signed by the DAM, or the DPL,
or the whole NM team, stating that the person named, and
whose picture is being signed, is indeed a DD.
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's, at least one issued
by a governemt that demonstrate who you are, and match the
signed the signed picture in a)
c) tell me, personally, what your vote is during the voting
period. Be prepared to do the same with an auditor is the
vote is ever audited.


======================================================================


If none of these three sets of requirements can be met, then
unfortunately, there is no way of demonstrating that the ballot
presented is legal and should be considered as belonging to someone
who is franchised in Debian.

Now, hilarious thought this thread has been, I think we have
beaten the horse dead, don't you think?

manoj
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Manoj Srivastava <***@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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Daniel Stone
2005-03-20 11:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manoj Srivastava
2)
a) provide a signed email from the DAM or the DPL stating that
the key with a given ID and finger print belongs to a DD
A completely hypothetical (of course!) case: what if a developer is in
gid=Debian, currently has no key in the keyring (but is in the process
of getting it back in), but has a new key which is signed by the
current DPL? Would that be sufficient?
Frank Küster
2005-03-20 12:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manoj Srivastava
Post by Frank Küster
Post by Manoj Srivastava
b) show me, in person, two picture ID's issued by a governemt
that demonstrate who you are, and match the signed the signed
picture in a)
Why two ID cards?
Because that is the criteria I use to sign keys -- and I
figure that the least I can do before accepting ballots from
potential strangers is to have them meet the same criteria that I
have for signing their key.
That's logical. However, I think it's a hard requirement. I do have a
passport right now, but if I hadn't, it would be hard for me to fulfill
it, since no one will recognize me on the picture in my driver's
license. And anyway, the way to get a passport in Germany is to go to
the town hall of the city where you live and ask for one. When you
first tell them you moved there, and when you are handed over the
passport, they only check the "Personalausweis". There's no other
checking made, e.g. nobody cares for your "document of birth" or
whatever. Therefore I don't see any use in a second ID issued by the
same government.
Post by Manoj Srivastava
Post by Frank Küster
What if some german guy only has their "Personalausweis", but no
passport (no plans to leave the European Union, the passport is
quite expensive) and no drivers license?
Gow do you suppose they come to meet me to tell me their vote?
Well, that was theoretical. But should this procedure become accepted
"case law" within Debian, it might well be that in a couple of years (or
decades, no ideas about your plans) the secretary lives in Europe, or
India, or whatnot.
Post by Manoj Srivastava
Now, hilarious thought this thread has been, I think we have
beaten the horse dead, don't you think?
It seems it is quite dead.

Regards, Frank
--
Frank Küster
Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer
Helen Faulkner
2005-03-21 11:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Everyone,

There is an error in the currently posted transcript for part 1 of the
debate [1]. The following section, in "Managing DPL Duties and Life":

AngusLees:
I consider travelling as an extremely important factor of being
DPL. Before nominating, I carefully considered the time I will have
available and I am confident that I can do what is required and it will
not impact on my existing (minimal) Debian duties. I think that I
established very well that i prepared and planned ahead for this not to
happen: i can work on Debian and DPL issues during work hours and have
the DPL-team to fall back on. Even with flames and critizim, which can
hurt individuals and demotivate them severely, the team can help by
offering moral support.

Should read:

AngusLees:
I consider travelling as an extremely important factor of being
DPL. Before nominating, I carefully considered the time I will have
available and I am confident that I can do what is required and it will
not impact on my existing (minimal) Debian duties.

AndreasSchuldei:
I think that I established very well that i prepared and planned
ahead for this not to happen: i can work on Debian and DPL issues during
work hours and have the DPL-team to fall back on. Even with flames and
critizim, which can hurt individuals and demotivate them severely, the
team can help by offering moral support.



The error was mine, and I am sorry for any confusion this may have
caused. The corrected transcript will be uploaded to [1] as soon as
possible.

Helen

1. http://www.debian.org/vote/2005/Log-debian-dpl-debate

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